Kids and Roleplaying Games
Welcome to the homepage of the kids-rpg mailing list!
Please note:
you have connected to the personal home page site of Sam Chupp. The site as a whole
is not a kids' site, although this page is kid-tested and kid-approved.
This mailing list is for the discussion of children in
non-computer-related roleplaying games, either the pen-and-paper
tabletop kind or the live-action roleplaying kind. Adults and children
are welcome to participate in the discussion, which will include but
not be limited to the following topics:
- the best games for kids
- game design for kids
- girls as roleplayers
- roleplaying advocacy (especially for
children)
Below you will find our Frequently
Asked Questions, our mailing list charter, and our content guidelines.
- What
is kids-rpg?
- What
is the mission statement of the list?
- Who
is Sam Chupp?
- What
are future goals for the list?
- Administrivia
- What
are role-playing games?
- What
are some role-playing games (RPGs) my children may enjoy?
- Where
do I get these games, and what else do I have to buy?
- What
do I buy the roleplaying kid who has nothing?
- What
do I buy the roleplaying kid who has everything?
- What
is a LARP?
- What
is the difference between a role-playing game and card games such as
Pokemon, Magic The Gathering, etc.?
- How
hard is it for kids to play RPGs?
- What
are the special needs of girls in RPGs?
- What
about disabled children?
- My
kids spend an awful lot of time playing RPGs - should I worry?
- Isn't
this just a phase?
- Why
are role-playing games so engaging to children?
- I
played RPGs when I was a kid. How do I start my own kids playing?
- What's the best age to get started?
- Is
this hobby expensive?
- What
are the benefits of RPGs?
- What
are the downsides of playing RPGs?
- What
about kids who lose touch with reality or already have a shaky grasp on
it?
- Are
RPGs of occult or Satanist origin?
- Are
RPGs really just complicated tracts for Satanic worship?
- Aren't
wizards, psychics and other magic-users automatically Satanic?
- Isn't
it true that the games have much occult subtext?
- How
can a good Christian parent accept his child playing RPGs?
- I
still don't agree with you.
- What
games would you recommend that teach good Christian values?
- What
are concerns of atheist or agnostic parents and how can they be dealt
with?
- How
violent are RPGs?
- What
about other adult topics in RPGs?
- Miscellaneous
- Acknowledgements
- Disclaimers
- What
is kids-rpg?
kids-rpg is a mailing list run through the Yahoo!Groups web
site. Its purpose is to foster discussion on the topic of kids and
non-computer-based role-playing games.
- What
is the mission statement of the list?
"We, the members of the kids-rpg mailing list, are committed to the
promoting the practice of roleplaying as a hobby among children. We set
out to foster discussion between and amongst adult caretakers of
children, children, teachers, religious leaders, role-playing game
industry personnel, and other interested parties. We strive to increase
our membership list and encourage active weekly participation.
We come together to provide both a nonjudgmental place of free
expression which is also safe for children."
- Who
is Sam Chupp?
Sam Chupp is the moderator and founder of the list. His home page is here.
He is a former employee of White Wolf Game Studio, a publisher of
roleplaying games primarily for adults. During his time at White Wolf
he was a writer, game designer, layout artist, public relations
liaison, Intern Program Manager, Internet representative, playtest
coordinator, design contributor and creative assistant. He is a parent,
as well, of three children:
a boy named Rowan (16)
and a girl named Katie
(14),
and a girl named Genevieve (13).
- What
are future goals for the list?
This list was conceived with the idea that we will one day have more
than one moderator and have upwards of 1000 subscribers, and 100
regular contributors. It is expected that the subscribers will meet at
conventions for game sessions, parties, and family-oriented fun.
- Administrivia
This
mailing list is not moderated. However, new subscribers are moderated
for a few posts until they show the ability to write posts that conform
to the list's content guidelines.
- What
are role-playing games?
Whole books have been written on just this topic. The basic definition
is this: "A roleplaying game is a game in which two or more people
interactively participate in the creation of a shared story. Most
players act out roles of characters in the story, while one player is
the referee or narrator of the story, playing the part of all the minor
characters and providing a framework by which dramatic conflict is
resolved."
The short answer for kids is this: "Roleplaying games are where you
play make-believe and make a story in a group. There is usually one
person who is in charge of the story and helps figure out what happens.
The other people in the game play characters in the story, and
everybody works together to make the story fun and interesting."
You'll notice that I do not include computer-based roleplaying games in
this definition. This is because computer-based RPGs are not really
about narration and stories, they are more about fighting and solving
puzzles.
Role-playing games make excellent social platforms as they encourage
interaction, teamwork and acceptance of differences.
- What
are some role-playing games (RPGs) my children may enjoy?
Just about any non-Adults Only RPG is appropriate for children. The
answer to the question largely depends on the narrator (referee,
Dungeon Master, Storyteller, or Game Master) who runs the game and on
the individual interests of children.
This is because most games can be made interesting to children by
following the interests of a child: if she imagines herself a starship
pilot and would love to fly to distant planets, a science fiction game
would be excellent for her. If she likes the idea of living in the Wild
West, there are games about that topic. There are games that are
generic RPGs that allow you to roleplay in any environment imaginable.
Because most children like fantastic themes, I always recommend the
game Dungeons
and Dragons,
published by a company called Wizards Of The Coast. This is primarily
because it is a very well-known game and it has a very large
distribution base.
One obvious games that should immediately is Toon
by Steve Jackson Games
- although the silliness associated with the game does not make for
long campaigns or great stories.
A list of games will soon be published at WJ Walton's Young Person's
Adventure League website.
- Where
do I get these games, and what else do I have to buy?
Good news! You have a much easier time of it in this day and age than
my parents did 24 years ago. There are game stores in every major city
where you can go and look at the games and talk to people who play. The
Internet has many well-stocked, well-informed game stores.
And there are mailing lists like these to help you in your time of
need. Large bookstores like Borders and Barnes & Noble even
have
these games now. Roleplaying game instruction manuals come in many
forms from a CD-ROM (the text has been scanned in and formatted for use
on a computer) to a photocopied and stapled "home-grown" game book.
Most of them look like 8 1/2" by 11" books, perfect-bound with shiny,
glossy covers. I do advise all adult caretakers to definitely go and
put hands on books before you buy them the first time. You have to make
sure that a specific game fits with your family's restrictions on adult
content.
Some roleplaying games have very scantily clad people depicted in the
artwork, and some also have considerable violence. The industry is
getting better about regulating itself and issuing content labels to
help, but I still wouldn't trust it. Take a look at the books first,
then go forward with buying them. Do not buy any games at a game dealer
who refuses to show you a copy of the game outside of shrink-wrap: this
is a common practice near where I live and I won't stand for it. Caveat
Emptor.
Many times, in addition to the game book or books you will also be
expected to buy random-number-generators, usually in the form of dice.
Some of these dice gets pretty strange-looking; little pyramids,
diamond-shapes, twelve-sided solids, etc. They are perfect for getting
underfoot, getting stuck in baby's mouths, and attacked by cats. Be
careful! Dice are not for small children.
- What
do I buy the roleplaying kid who has nothing?
To start out, just buy them the basic gamebook of the game you've
chosen (ask a dealer or a gamer for help if necessary) and avoid buying
too many other supplementary texts just off the bat. A kid's first RPG
can be a daunting experience, and you don't want to overwhelm her. If
you can find a "Starter" deal that will give you dice and all the
gamebooks needed to play, go for it.
- What
do I buy the roleplaying kid who has everything?
You're in luck. The industry is so old now that there are such things
as antique games. Many RPGs have gone the way of the dinosaur for
whatever reason: lack of marketing, lack of funds on the publisher's
part, whatever. Those old dinosaurs of dead games can be a perfect
treasure for the gamer who has everything. eBay is a great place
to begin looking for these old games.
Also game imports can be fun. There are many excellent roleplaying
games created all over the world. France, for example, is known for
many original RPGs in the French language - what better gift for a high
school French student who is also a gamer?
Besides that? You can warm the cockles of a young gamer's heart by
finding out what their favorite character wears in her story: for
example, if the brave warrior Andrea has a necklace in her game with a
silver pendant shaped like a Unicorn, then buying her a necklace just
like that would probably go over real well. Fantasy and science fiction
conventions and Renaissance Faires are the best place to find a wide
selection of RPG-related clothes, jewelry and the like.
- What
is a LARP?
A LARP is a Live Action Roleplaying game. "Live Action" as opposed to
sitting around a table. The characters in a LARP get up and move
around. That is the primary difference. There are many different kinds
of LARPs. They range from physically intensive physical-combat games
(like paintball and games with foam-padded weaponry) to no-touching
interactive literature games where the story is of chief importance.
There are unfortunately not many LARPs geared for children, although
you occasionally hear of one or two run a year. Most LARPs are for
adults only - even if it's express or implied. I am personally working
to fix this incongruity by running LARPs for kids myself - so far I
have run my LARP, Six
Stones twice.
- What
is the difference between a role-playing game and card games such as
Pokemon, Magic The
Gathering, etc.?
Card games, particularly collectible card games like Pokemon and Magic
The Gathering, are more strategy and tactics games and have very little
to do with roleplaying. Sometimes players of these games will be "in
character" as they play, but that is not the same as participating in
an interactive story.
- How
hard is it for kids to play RPGs?
Kids are natural roleplayers. They do it extremely well, much better
than adults, because they have not yet learned to quash their own sense
of imagination (or, at least, one hopes that hasn't been quashed yet!).
The only problem some children may have are the math requirements for
some of the game mechanics: typically these are addition and
subtraction problems.
- What
are the special needs of girls in RPGs?
Girls
must be encouraged in RPGs because most referees reward
aggressive behavior over social behavior. The folks who designed
computer
games for girls at Purple Moon (a short-lived computer game company
which has since been bought out by Mattel) did a lot of research about
this very problem.
Theydetermined
that girls enjoy such games just as much as boys, but that the games
that boys play reward aggression and competition while girls respond
well to an atmosphere of cooperation, encouragement, and socialization.
As a result, it is important for a girl to roleplay in groups that can
foster this kind of interaction. If the game is purely about who kills
what, who gets what treasure, then the game usually won't be much fun
for the girls.
RPGs for girls do not have to be frilly or pink, just fun in the way
they tend to appreciate.
- What
about disabled children?
Roleplaying games are ideal for disabled children because the
imagination is a level playing ground. From a social interaction point
of view, roleplaying could conceivably be an excellent means by which a
disabled child can make and keep new friends in an accepting
environment.
- My
kids spend an awful lot of time playing RPGs - should I worry?
Only worry if they are playing roleplaying games to the exclusion of
all else - encourage them to play other games, socialize differently,
or combine their game with some other activity like taking a nature
hike. Live Action Roleplaying Games are just the thing for
too-sedentary children who still want to roleplay: they get incredible
exercise running around in a LARP, even an indoor one. If they start to
lose a lot of sleep or watch their grades fall because of RPGs, it's
time to step in and do something about it.
- Isn't
this just a phase?
That's what my parents thought 24 years ago.
- Why
are role-playing games so engaging to children?
There's an awful lot of detail in roleplaying games, and the game is
very personal to the players. This is because the imagination is very
actively, directly engaged and self-identification takes place between
the player and the player's character.
Plus, there is the social element. For example, there are some people
in my life whom will never escape the caul of my having gamed with
them: Sean Healy will always in some way be Shaglan Landrover to me, or
Sir Eoin, and Gary Nistler will always be Ahira Dwarf. I think of them
as friends first and role-players second, but the role-playing has made
long-lasting impressions and memories that will literally last the rest
of my life.
- I
played RPGs when I was a kid. How do I start my own kids playing?
You have to let them come to you - don't force it Mom or Dad. Just play
within earshot of them and let them see how much fun it is for you.
Soon you will have them begging to play.
- When
is the best age to start gaming?
There isn't really a "Best Age," but you can use as a rough guideline
the years between 7 and 9. Typically, a child must demonstrate the
ability to sit still while doing something they enjoy, and be willing
to follow along and pay attention to another person or persons.
Everything else is "gravy."
- Is
this hobby expensive?
No, of course not. I mean not compared to, say, collecting sports cars.
Actually, the hobby is a fairly cheap one if you consider things in a
"Dollar Per Hour Of Entertainment" perspective. A $30 gamebook can
provide endless (100+) hours of fun and entertainment. Compare that to
a movie ticket at a pitiful $3.50/hour of entertainment. And
technically, you don't need
all those supplements, although the game industry would have you
believe otherwise. This is a great hobby where you can receive
gamebooks as presents at your Spring holiday (Easter, the Equinox,
whatever), your child's birthday, and your Winter Holiday (Solstice,
Christmas, Hanukkah, whatever) and still have enough books to be able
to play.
- What
are the benefits of RPGs?
Roleplaying games teach social skills such as negotiation and consensus
decision making. Because of frequent tie-ins to historical backgrounds
they can be springboards to learn about politics, history, and world
geography. They foster an environment where vocabulary is improved.
They allow values, ethics, and morals to be taught in the context of a
story. They promote reading and the study of myth and literature.
- What
are the downsides of playing RPGs?
Downsides. Good question. The only one I can name is that kids who play
roleplaying games can possibly become ostracized by other children who
do not understand them. Anything that is different is considered
strange, anything considered strange is mocked and those who
participate in it can be abused. As long as your children are prepared
in general for such peer pressure, they should be fine.
- What
about kids who lose touch with reality or already have a shaky grasp on
it?
You have to decide as a parent whether its a healthy activity for your
child. If you feel like your child has trouble distinguishing between
fantasy and reality, you need to make a judgement call and restrict
access to roleplaying games until such time as the line can be firmly
drawn. Children with a history of emotional disorders and/or mental
illness should definitely speak with their mental health care provider
before playing any role-playing game.
Roleplaying games are not psychotherapy and should never be used for
such.
- Are
RPGs of occult or Satanist origin?
The idea of roleplaying games comes from storytelling practices that
even Jesus used in his day. Some of the fantasy-related backgrounds of
roleplaying games have been misconstrued by some people to have Satanic
or Occult backgrounds. In truth, however, they have as much to do with
the Occult as modern-day TV sitcoms has to do with Shakespeare.
It is possible that someone who claimed to be a Satanist (there are
such people) could create a role-playing game for the purposes of
glorifying Satan. Satanism is a Christian heresy designed to work
against the Christian belief system. As such, it is a set of values and
beliefs, and as such, they could technically be taught in a roleplaying
game, just as in any other medium.
But there are no such games that I have come across which exist, and I
have been in the hobby for 24 years. The only game in which one can
actually play a minion of Lucifer, In Nomine,
is also a game where God is depicted as being the most powerful and
correct entity. Hardly a Satanist approach.
- Isn't
Dungeons and Dragons
really just a complicated tract for Satanic worship?
See above. No way. Dungeons and Dragons
is based in a fantasy background, and yes there are evil people and
demons in the fantasy background. But it is clear that Good is always
meant to win in the end, and always triumph over Evil. Even players who
play Evil characters have to deal with the fact that they will
ultimately always lose. These are not a function of the rules but of
modern storytelling techniques.
Once again, everything depends on the game master or referee. If your
kids are playing with a GM who rewards evil actions, it is time to
either work this out as a problem, or get a new GM.
- Aren't
wizards, psychics and other magic-users automatically Satanic?
You must be referring to that old "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to
live" text in the Bible, or something like it. Well, ultimately, this
is all make-believe. If you sat a Satanist down and asked her to
explain how she does curses and casts evil spells, it would be nothing
at all like what happens in role-playing games. Magic in RPGs has more
to do with super-hero powers than with Satanic rituals. If you are
concerned, tell your child that you don't want her to play a
magic-using character and leave it at that.
- Isn't
it true that the fantasy games like Dungeons
and Dragons have much occult subtext?
If by "Occult" you mean "Mythological", yes.There are druids and there
are demons and there are dragons and there are all kinds of nasty
creatures. But on the other hand there are fairies, unicorns (which
have frequently been used as a Christian symbol of God's purity and
strength), angels and priests. Remember, the games take place in the
land of make believe. Occultism and mythology have a common background
- myth stories make up the background of all literature including that
of the Bible.
- How
can a good Christian parent accept his child playing RPGs?
If you think of yourself as a good Christian, simply require that your
child play RPGs in the way that they should do everything else - with
good Christian values and as a testament to Christ. Maybe his character
could be a knight sworn to Holy orders, or a peasant girl with a strong
personal faith like the Christian girl in The Hiding
Place.
There's no reason your child can't play in a Christian way, and you can
definitely make sure that the referee understands your standards for
what is appropriate.
- I
still don't agree with you.
You don't have to agree with me to post to this mailing list, but you
still must abide by the content guidelines if you choose to post.
kids-rpg is meant to be an open and accepting environment, and
religious arguments rarely fall into the category of being open and
accepting.
- What
games would you recommend that teach good Christian values?
Green Dragon's Pendragon
game is about Arthur and his knights, and has a very strong
Christian-positive bent, as does In Nomine
by Steve Jackson Games (although be warned: the game provides for
playing Demons as well as Angels). The historical fantasy game Ars
Magica is set in medieval Europe and as such is very
pro-Christian. Finally, there is a Christian group that puts out a game
called DragonRaid,
a roleplaying game that teaches bible verses and Christian dogma: I
fail to see how any Christian parent could not be OK with their child
playing such a game.
- What
are concerns of atheist or agnostic parents and how can they be dealt
with?
Religion ultimately doesn't have to ever even enter into roleplaying
games. Certain radical fundamentalists have made role playing a
religion battleground, but ultimately, it is just a side-issue. You
don't have to believe in God or any Gods to play in a game. Some
fantasy games have in-character religions that you may want to steer
your child away from, or simply allow them to participate in the spirit
of make believe.
- How
violent are RPGs?
They can be very violent. Once again, it all depends on the referee or
Narrator. If the kind of stories that your children are exposed to in a
game offends you, ask the Narrator to tone it down or put a stop to it.
In general, I believe that games for kids should be focused on
problem-solving, puzzle-solving, cooperation, teamwork, and character
interaction - not necessarily fighting.
- What
about other adult topics in RPGs?
There are no intrinsic adult topics in RPGs, although certainly any
story that takes place can have adult content if the narrator wishes.
You must be clear that your Narrator is aware of what you think is
appropriate for your children. Topics like pregnancy, birth, rape, sex,
and so forth should be handled obliquely if at all.
- Miscellaneous
This FAQ is ever-evolving. If you have an addition, please send it to
me, the FAQ supervisor here.
- Acknowledgements
This is version 1.1 of the FAQ, written entirely by Sam Chupp, edited
by Cynthia Armistead. This work is copyright © 2002 by Sam
Chupp.
Permission is given to archive and post this work online as long as
this copyright notice remains intact. All other rights reserved.
- Disclaimers
I disclaim everything. It all could be wrong.
This very brief charter will be replaced by a longer one as
needed.
It establishes the following:
- Ownership of the List
The list is owned by Sam Chupp, founder and moderator, in cooperation
with Yahoo!Groups.
- Copyright and Trademark
You own your own posts. All rights fall to their original owners
accordingly. Please note that any text posted to this list may not be
considered privately circulated by magazine publishers and the like.
- Quotation
You may quote other people's posts (as is traditional) in your posts,
but you don't own the excerpts you use to post.
- Media Coverage
If there ever is any Media Coverage, let the primary list moderator
handle it.
- Moderators
Moderators will be appointed by the Founder on an as-needed basis,
according to his own private criteria.
- Closing of the List
The list will only be closed with three week's prior notice via a post
to the list.
- Successorship
The list will pass to the assign of the list founder if he chooses to
step down.
- Privacy
The list will never sell its distribution list to anyone for money.
Please conduct yourself on the kids-rpg mailing list in your
best
possible behavior. There is to be no obscenity, and no adults-only
topics. Please avoid personal attacks on others' beliefs and ideas -
this is a "NO HUNTING IDEAS" zone. You can offer your opinion, it can
be counter to another person's opinion, yes, but offer constructive
criticism or not at all.
Please understand that religious arguments are not within the
scope
of this mailing list. Polite discussion will be tolerated, but not
outright arguments. The list moderator is a Unitarian Universalist and
so believes all religions and beliefs have equal validity.
Repeat advertising and spam will not be tolerated. One-time
advertising of topic-related products or events will be accepted.